Kiss is Bigger than Efusjon

Nice pitch for your Vemma company. Unfortunately I've seen this too many times... bash another company with vague and inaccurate facts and then lead people to your so called "better" company. For all reading this... don't buy this tactic. Vemma is not a better company than eFusjon.... the so called "facts" that are being portrayed here are being twisted just to get you to look at another company. The Vemma product is not that great... and definitely not that marketable. People get "energy drinks", and if they can get healthy ones they will. eFusjon is the only product I would buy if there wasn't any opportunity attached to it. This is about the product, not about whether an idea to use Facebook to market failed. Come on... anyone who was smart enough new that Facebook wouldn't get everyone in the world to sign up!

You have to use your head in any company you get involved with. There will always be some hype with these companies but keep your head straight and don't get caught up in it to the point that you get disappointed because of your "presumptions". Focus on the product and solid proven marketing techniques that work.

I believe eFusjon is just getting started simply because they do have the best energy drink product out there, and their compensation plan is still the best in the industry. By the way, it looks like they will be coming out with additional up-front commissions that will absolutely make this the best comp plan in the industry by a long-shot.

Has eFusjon made some presumptous marketing mistakes...sure. But what company hasn't? I would be the last to say that I havn't made mistakes...but do you really want to be the first one to throw a stone here? Business moves forward when we learn from things that didn't works and move into things that do work. To simply throw in the towel because a company didn't have a 100% record of doing everything perfectly is immature, and lacks the wisdom to be successful in business over the long-term. Grace is required no matter what business you get involved in. Offer to help and extend your hand of grace, and you will be one that becomes an active participant in overcoming the obstacles that come (and they always do), instead of becoming additional obstacles that end up causing further hindrance.

Ahhh...we have so much to learn.

Jordan

Jordan:

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about?

First, every point I listed is based on history and facts. All you've got are opinions and what you believe. Facts and opinions are 2 different things!

Evidently you choose to ignore ORAC scores, lab tests, clinical studies, and magazine articles on the science behind the Verve product, and your statements are even more ludicrous in light of the fact that Efusjon has no ORAC listed, no clinical studies, no lab reports, no credible magazine coverage, and no awards or recognition.

Do me a favor! List the twisted facts for me...and explain how they've been twisted. Cite some specific examples, use some numbers and facts, not an opinion! We'll be waiting!

Second, and this is where it's going to get fun, please name 2 or 3 companies with a matrix pay plan that have launched in the last 10 or 15 years that have had any significant, long term success! Name 2 or 3 that are say, at least 5 years old, doing oh lets say $100 million a year, and that have at least several people making $100,000 a month...

The mere fact that you would state Efusjon, which is a matrix plan concept that historically has NEVER worked except in the case of 1 company, demonstrates your total lack of knowledge and experience in the industry. It doesn't matter whether it's been a forced matrix, an expandable matrix, one with or without compression, or any other band aid solution attempted, they've never lasted-period, end of story!

My partner and I have each been in the industry for 25 years, had combined teams of over 500,000 distributors in 2 companies prior to VEMMA where our groups generated around $2 billion in sales, and we earned over $10 million, with numerous people on our teams having earned up to $1 million a year and more.

In addition, we're considered top experts and do consulting for companies. If you're going to get into a discussion with us, you better know what you're talking about or you're going to end up looking real stupid. We've forgotten more than you'll probably ever learn!

So instead of a long diatribe filled with opinion, cite some examples will you? And be sure to get back with us on the question regarding 2 or 3 companies with a successful matrix plan that have had some longevity and substantial success! I've got news for you-you're not going to find 2 or 3, but answer the question! When you're not able to, people will know you have no idea what you're talking about!

Your analysis that "every company has problems" as if every company makes 4 and now according to you a soon to be announced 5 major comp plan change in such a short period of time is somehow common is absurd! That only happens when you go with unproven or failed pay plan models and when the problems and flaws surface, since you have no idea how to solve them, you start scrambling and changing this and changing that..

The changes are being made because the matrix plan has inherent flaws in its design and they're scrambling trying to figure out how to make something work that doesn't work, implementing stop gap measures in order to fix the flaws, and those patches are band aid solutions to the real problem!

Let me give you an analogy that may help you out-it's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole! Isn't going to happen! I wouldn't be surprised to see them do what Zrii, Max Life, and Gano Excel have done-throw out the baby with the bathwater and implement a binary plan. Mark my words, if they last that long...

And this comment of yours is really laughable and I quote "As we all know, products are what keeps a business active in the long-term...not comp plans." We all know? Don't include us in with your "we." No, people, field leadeship, and marketing are what keep a company active, and when comp plans don't work, people leave, it doesn't matter how great the product is! When companies are in turmoil and management is inexperienced, people leave, regardless of how great the product is.

Companies with great products come and go all the time in this industry! There are far more companies with an average product but a proven pay plan that have succeeded than those with a great product and a lousy pay plan! Wow, you have a lot to learn!

My suggestion is lay off the "kool aid" and wake up to reality. Now, since you don't have a lot of knowledge or experience in our industry, go to google and do a search and find me 3 companies launched in the last 10 or 15 years with a matrix plan that have become industry giants and get back to us...we'll be waiting...

Any notice how quickly someone who feels they need to defend there company at any cost can "manifest" with such evident agitation and anger? I know when not to engage... because dealing with such people is pointless...they always have to have the last word....you watch. No...I won't choose to engage in such immaturity, by answering such questions when they are born out of such apparent hypocrisy. You want the facts but you have not shown the facts about your claims. Where's the income statements that you claimed you've earned in the industry, where the documents to back up your opinions? Don't ask for what you aren't providing yourself. My fist comments was simply to inform people of the character behind your post. My initial discernment seems to have proven me right.

Efusjon:

Whose agitated or angry? I deal with facts, not opinions and emotions like you do. This response is going to prove how little you know...

By the way, love your excuse that you hide behind as to why you're not answering the questions you were asked! Instead of "Well, you're right. I'm new to the industry, I have no facts to support what I said, all I have is an opinion," you hide behind "I'm not answering because the other person is immature." LOL...In debate circles, we used to call that a "punt." Nothing like avoiding answering the question by diverting attention to something else. LOL..

Let me help you out since you are obviously a "newbie" to the industry and evidently haven't figured out how to use to Google...wonder what excuse you are going to use now???

Here's the sources that prove the points I was making:

ORAC score-source: Brunswick Labs

Highest ORAC score of energy drinks tested to date: Brunswick Labs data

2009 Product of the Year: Fall 2009 issue Ms. Fitness magazine

Official energy drink of 4 U.S. pro sports teams: Phoenix Suns, Phoenix Coyotes, Phoenix Mercury and L.A. Avengers: http://phoenix.bizjournals.com/phoenix/stories/...

Verve named official energy drink of NABI: http://www.nabihoops.com/nabi_basketball/press_...

VEMMA Mangosteen Best Overall Product: The Men's Journal magazine Dec 2008 issue

Independent, double blind, placebo controlled, clinical studies:

1.)Effect of the Vemma Formula on Immune Function and C-Reactive Protein Response in Humans: A Randomized Double-Blind Placebo-Controlled Trial and 2.) Bioavailability and Antioxidant Effects of the Vemma Formula in Humans

Conducted by: Brunswick Labs

If you'd like to read them, assuming you'd understand what you're reading, here's the link: http://issuu.com/washitaw/docs/3rd_party_human_...

Verve on front cover of Women's Fitness June 2008 issue
Verve on the front cover of Success From Home magazine March 2008 issue
VEMMA/Verve on front cover of Work at Home Magazine March 2007 issue
VEMMA/Verve on cover of Direct Selling News May 2009 issue-http://www.directsellingnews.com/index.php/site/entries_archive_display/hip_and_healthy

Your Business at Home Magazine-March 2007 issue

Famous Doctor recommends VEMMA in Esquire magazine:
http://www.esquire.com/features/ask-dr-oz/dr-oz...

Ok..I've proven my points and documented everything I said was true. Now, where's yours? Oh I forgot...you don't have any. Why? Because Efusjon has no ORAC published! Efusjon has no clinical studies! Efusjon has no pro sports teams using their product! Efusjon hasn't gotten the press coverage Verve has!

You have nothing but an opinion, and an uneducated and misinformed one at that!

Now, in regards to the income situation, have our company magazines that show amounts of income earned by all of the top leaders. Where do I email them? Can also show the most recent top 10 list. (We're #3)...By the way, where's yours? Got anything you can email us???

Now let's document that matrix plans don't work...Here's what Rod Cook, a good friend by the way and one of the most well kwown and knowledgeable consultants in the industry, has to say about matrix plans:

http://www.mlmwatchdog.com/MLM_comp_matrix_plan...

Here is what Jeff Babener, well known MLM attorney has to say about matrix plans:

"Matrix plans have been subjected to attacks by regulatory agencies because they sometimes look like "a game." By and large, they have not had a successful record in the industry, and they foster nonproducers, which makes the upline distributors resentful."

Now, we're still waiting for you to document just 2 or 3 matrix pay plans that have launched in the past 10-15 years that are at least 5 years old and have had substantial success...Well???

Ok...so far the only person with any documentation is me and that's because you have no documentation! All you've got is an uneducated opinion!

Why so serious? lol. Enjoy yourself...take a break..drink some koolaid...its the weekend. Love and peace bro...or sis...not exactly sure.

You asked for the documentation and we provided it to prove our points...you on the other hand can't support any of your "opinions." My advice is for you to 1) know what you're talking about the next time you want to challenge someone, especially when you call into question the integrity and the knowledge of 2 people that are well known industry leaders, and 2) since you've embarrassed yourself and made yourself look like a total fool, take the weekend and do some reading....you might learn something....bro....

I said I wouldn't be engaging. Its not that I don't have my arguments...its that I don't want to waste my time here. I kind of found it amusing how you expended so much time and energy on this thread. Its kind of like watching a tennis match where the one person is standing still smashing the ball to the left and right while the other player is left scrambling to retrieve it, wasting all their energy and resources...lol

LMAO...that's the best cop out and excuse I've heard in a while...guess when you get your azz kicked 9 ways to Sunday in a discussion and are exposed for being inexperienced and have no documentation or facts to support your erroneous "opinions" that the only way to back out is to use the "I won't be engaging excuse..." LOL...uh, we call that the "stick your tail between your azz cheeks and back away in embarassment" excuse...

Your logic is amusing...you don't want to spend any time here, but yet here you are! You're too much! You should lay off the stupid juice...and start drinking an energy drink that has some nutrients for your brain cells...by the way Efusjon doesn't have any of those...

Finally, in regards to your tennis analogy, your conclusion is a little off...It's like watching tennis alright...it's like watching me serve ace after ace past you while you stand there unable to hit the return and looking totally inept...LMAO...

Game...set...and match....

And that's the final word! lol...told you so.

Norm, not suprised!

Leading MLM Industry Expert Reveals Why Efusjon Distributors Are Destined to Fail!

As a well known industry leader (in 2 opportunities prior to our current company my partner and I had combined teams of over 600,000 distributors and group sales of $2 billion, coaching numerous people to incomes of up to $1 million a year and more), I'm amazed at the number of people blindly jumping on the Efusjon bandwagon who are obviously new or not very experienced or knowledgeable about our industry, especially pay plans, and this hub is a perfect example!

Here's a "real" review, one based on facts, not opinions, a review that should prove very enlightening and educational to many.

The recent changes at Efusjon (several pay plan changes already) plus the fallout over the less than stellar performance of the much hyped “Facebook application” has caused numerous people to leave Efusjon. Here’s why:

1) Efusjon is less than 2 years old. 98% of new companies fail in their first 2 years! Furthermore, of the 30,000-50,000 companies that have launched in the past 6 decades, less than 100 have made it to the 10 year mark! You’re talking 1 company, on average, out of every 300-500 companies that launch surviving 5-10 years! One! That’s called luck! A fluke! No smart entrepreneur bets their success on luck! If you were looking to put the odds of success in your favor, you certainly wouldn't choose a new, start up deal!

Of course, the “big lie” that is used to promote groundfloor programs is that it is those that are in at the beginning are the ones who make the big money, and that is the rationale for taking a high risk bet. There’s just one problem: It’s just not true! Most top income earners at the “old school” companies are not those that were in at the beginning. Many didn’t get involved until the 2-3-4-5th year or later!

2) Matrix plans do NOT work which explains the frequent changes at Efusjon! Of the 30,000-50,000 opportunities that have launched over the past 6 decades, only 1 has experienced any significant, long term success with a matrix pay plan-one, and that company has had to modify their plan on numerous occasions in order to keep their top leaders! Whenever something only works once, we call that a fluke!

Nobody in their right mind would get involved with something that has only worked once! (Owners looking for a short term cash grab like them because they know that their company is not likely to be around 2-3 years from now and matrix plans pay out less money than any other pay plan due to all the breakage that occurs, regardless of whether it's a forced matrix, has compression, etc.)

Furthermore, the one particular company that has had some success with a matrix plan launched 25 years ago, when there were far fewer opportunities available. Today that same company probably wouldn't survive 10 years. In addition, they’ve had to make numerous changes to their plan in order to retain their leaders, many who left anyway.

In fact, there’s hasn’t been one company in the past 10-15 years with a matrix pay plan that has generated substantial numbers, experienced long term success, and generated a large number of high 5 or 6 figure monthly incomes-not one!

No experienced or knowledgeable network marketing professional with an understanding of the history of our industry and compensation plans would ever work a matrix plan, no matter what typical wrinkle you add such as forced matrix, compression, or some other new fangled idea as they are notorious for breakage and pay out far less than other pay plans, which is one reason for the several pay plan changes made already by Efusjon!

Claims of massive amounts of potential spillover are further evidence that people have no grasp of how compensation plans works. Each level you go down in a matrix plan the less in potential spillover occurs, not more! It’s a basic mathematical fact! (If you want maximum potential for spillover, work a binary plan!)

Additionally, regulators consider matrix pay plans gimmicky and they're most often associated with "money games."

So far, Efusjon has made several changes in their compensation plan and I’ve got news for you-they’ll be making several more, it’s just a matter of time! Why? Because matrix plans don’t work!

Reasons #1 and #2 would be reason enough not to get involved with Efjusjon IF you were looking to put the odds of success in your favor! You’ve got the biggest strikes against right from the start! The odds of a new company surviving 5 years are 1 in 30-500 (talk about a long shot!) and a pay plan concept that has never worked! Nothing like virtually guaranteeing you’re going to fail than signing up in a new company with a matrix pay plan!

And then people wonder why 97% of people in our industry fail, never succeed, and never make money! It starts with making a smart business decision and putting the odds of success in your favor, not trying to beat the odds!

As if reasons #1 and #2 weren’t bad enough…..

3) The “Facebook application” has been one big hype job! In fact, Facebook itself is not real happy! Furthermore, driving traffic and attracting eyeballs is one thing-whether or not they stick once they sign up for the long term is another matter, and in fact, due to having a matrix plan, that virtually assures they won't stick long term. Many are already leaving! (If they knew points #1 and 2 above, they never would have gotten involved in the first place! You should always to try to put the odds of success in your favor, not try to defy history and the odds, which is usually a recipe for failure!

In addition, anyone can create an application for Facebook, just like you can for eBay.

Here’s 9 additional reasons why VEMMA and it’s Verve energy drink is a much smarter business decision:

4) VEMMA’s Verve Energy Drink is a Superior Product!

Verve has a higher ORAC score and a complete spectrum of 12 vitamins, 65 essential and trace minerals, antioxidants, Aloe Vera, Green Tea, and the amazing superfruit, Mangosteen, is supported by clinical studies, and recommended by leading doctors! In addition, Mangosteen is considered to be a superior superfruit to Acai as shown in Men’s Health magazine. Efusjon is NOT a full spectrum formula and has no clinical studies!

Verve is available in 8 ounce cans and 3 ounce shots with regular or sugar free versions.

Most exciting, we have recently launched an exciting product for children 2-12 years of age!

Finally, VEMMA has its own 70,000 square foot, state of the art manufacturing facility.

5) VEMMA Has Superior Value!

In VEMMA, the distributorship is FREE! Efusjon charges $30!

6) VEMMA Has Superior Recognition and Media Coverage!

Verve has just been named 2009 Product of the Year in competition held by a leading fitness/health publication whose judging panel included fitness pros, doctors, and anti-aging specialist and it’s now the official energy drink of 4 U.S. pro sports teams, a first in network marketing history!

In addition, it’s been featured on the covers of and/or in such magazines as Success, Women’s Fitness, Work at Home, Ms. Fitness, and others!

7) VEMMA Has a Superior Pay Plan!

Top distributors are earning up to $100,000 a month and more within 1-3 years, most having started part time and the best part is you only have to build 2 teams! Top incomes after 3-4 years are up to $2 million a year and growing! And the best part is in VEMMA’s distributorship is FREE (Efusjon charges $30) and in VEMMA you get paid weekly whereas in Efusjon you don’t get paid until the middle of the following month!

8) VEMMA Has a Superior Management Team

VEMMA is a rapidly growing, 5 year old international company recently featured on the covers of Success magazine and Direct Selling News, one of the industry’s leading trade journals! The VEMMA ownership and management team has already built one billion dollar network marketing company (the parent company of VEMMA). Who is more likely to build a billion dollar network marketing company-People who have done it before or those that never have done it? Common sense should give you the answer!

9) VEMMA Has More Countries to Market In!

VEMMA is legally operating in 50 countries, far more than Efusjon, with an emphasis on legally! Most MLM companies “fly under the radar” when it comes to operating in foreign countries.

10) We Have a Superior Team to Join!

My partner and I have 60 years of combined experience in network marketing, having built some of the largest, fastest growing and most successful groups in the history of the industry. In 2 companies prior to VEMMA, we built combined teams of more than 600,000 distributors, generated $2 billion in group sales, and helped numerous people on our teams to earn up to $1 million a year and more!

We’re now #3 top earners with the number one international group! Join a team with support, training, a powerful, online business building system, and leadership! You'll be sponsored by and work directly with us!

11) Timing and Positioning

Here’s the best part! Once you’re positioned on our global expansion team, everyone we sponsor in any of 50 countries goes below you, positioning you with the opportunity to earn an income on their sales and on the 2 teams they develop, enabling you to primarily focus on building just one team! It sure beats having to build 3 “legs” or teams!

12) State of the art, web enabled websites with facebook and twitter application, blogging capabilities, and more plus advanced back office architecture with up to the minute details on your business.

13) VEMMA has a stronger story!

We invite you to take a FREE tour of our powerful, automated, online business building system, the industry’s most successful over the past 5 years. Who knows…while you’re on the tour, you might end up with a few potential distributors being placed below you, and if you decide to upgrade by the end of the current cycle, you’ll end up having them permanently below you should they decide to make a smart business decision and become a VEMMA distributor. Go to:

http://www.vemmabuilder.com/618850805

My reply was directed towards "MLMExpert's" reply on this page. I'm a little concerned however Norman with your choice to sell mints. Do you really believe that the KISS mints are a product worth dropping everything for? I'm interested in hearing more about why you think the KISS product is superior. As we all know, products are what keeps a business active in the long-term...not comp plans which is why I'm turning the discussion that direction.

Very nice looking marketing program.